QB-X8US3R (Win 7), how to implement Raid 10 , not ("2x Raid10") ?

    QB-X8US3R (Win 7), how to implement Raid 10 , not ("2x Raid10") ?

    Please... :

    I mounted 8x WD red 6TB disks.
    ( = I bought total 48 tb with the idea to end up with around 24 TB because of big redundancy-proportion of Raid 10)

    Im lost.
    Let me formulate here how I perceive the situation :

    I believe I made the preparations right, by following instructions of the Manual.

    The Fantec instruction says (raid 10) : "Note : The Computer will detect 2 Drives."
    (shows on my Win7 as 10To each -only!) )

    I dont understand this aproach, because;
    is the Raid-controller not in the QB-X8US3R itself ?
    Why should I have to set up mirroing the two drives myself in Win7 ?

    Do I mistake two concepts ? raid10 and 2xRaid10 (why the confusing "2x" ?? ) ?
    ( I bought this model because it says it provides Raid 10, It did not mention 2x10 as the tower now does)

    What ever way, I end up with far less then my
    24 TB needed/anticipated. I'm lost. What do I get wrong ?

    ( I dont want 2xRaid10, raid5, nor 50.. Just raid10.)

    Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von „arpl“ ()

    Hi,

    Raid 10 only works with 4 HDDs so it's impossible to use 8 HDDs in this Raid Mode!

    arpl schrieb:

    The Fantec instruction says (raid 10) : "Note : The Computer will detect 2 Drives."
    (shows on my Win7 as 10To each -only!) )

    I dont understand this aproach, because;
    is the Raid-controller not in the QB-X8US3R itself ?
    Why should I have to set up mirroing the two drives myself in Win7 ?


    Due to the fact that you can only use 2xRaid 10 with 8 HDDs you will get 2 Volumes and each of them is a Raid 10 Array with around 10 TB (Bit isn't Byte and because of that you don't get 12 TB from two 6 TB HDDs!).
    You better don't mirror the drives because then you will mirror two Raid 10 Array and from around 40 TB you will end up with 10 TB! :D

    arpl schrieb:

    ( I dont want 2xRaid10, raid5, nor 50.. Just raid10.)


    You must rethink your Raid knowledge because what you want is impossible with one device. You could change to two QB-35US3R devices and use both with a Raid 10 or you must use another Raid Mode but Raid 10 is not possible as you think until now!

    Best regards,
    Lars
    Thank YOu for this promt reaction!

    I just had a phone call with Fantec Support.
    This call confirmed one abnormality ! :

    Both PDF Technical presentation sheets of the Fantetec QB-X8US3R, in English and din German,
    downloadable at the products presentation page url FANTEC GmbH
    is at least uncomplete, or wrong, hence misleading :
    The real Raid Controller possibilities are not listed as the hardware (and it's symbols) finally truly is, the notion of "2x" is absent from the technical sheet.

    So this product in Raid 10 (for instance) ends up being seen as two drives. Impossible to have it here as one single drive. That COULD be regarded as an asset for some clients, I guess, so why not selling it with these specs ? But that's not how I planned my project, this PDF made me invest money and time wrongly.. so it seems to me jet. Not shure jet what i'll do.
    (splitt my data on the drives ? - of course I'm not going to mirror the two raid10!!! It was just that not knowing this unheard-of "2xRaid10" could possibly imply..)

    ( I do have 2 brand new 5 bay Enclosures that I could each have in Raid10, This would cut in half the risc of 2 brakedown riscs; Powersuply and Raid-failures, both in the one Fantec for "two drives" ..!?
    (sacrificing their 5th bay ).

    I'd like to find jet a serious url that stipulates that raid 10 is not possible above 4 HD (6,8, etc). !

    (now I also start to doubt about information-exactitude on other levels :
    " When N mirrored pairs are striped together this is called RAID10 because the mirroring (RAID1) is applied before striping (RAID0). The other option is to create two stripe sets and mirror them one to the other, this is known as RAID01 (because the RAID0 is applied first). In either a RAID01 or RAID10 system each and every disk block is completely duplicated on its drive's mirror. Performance-wise both RAID01 and RAID10 are functionally equivalent. The difference comes in during recovery where RAID01 suffers from some of the same problems I will describe affecting RAID5 while RAID10 does not.
    RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt Should I ask for written confirmation that the QB-X8US3R Fantec's Raid10 follows this naming convention?)

    Always eager for constructive feedback..

    Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von „arpl“ ()

    Lars,

    The datasheets that I regard as unacceptable and that are meant to help buying decisions of Fantec clients is at the url FANTEC_QB-X8US3R_datasheet_de.pdf .

    The User Manual, meant for the effective USER who already bought the article and wants INSTRUCTION, well of course I did see that also, as mentioned in my firs post (I discovered it on the CD that comes with the article - thats good so).

    I got confused by the inconsistency between their contents.

    So nothing knew here.

    But I would love to have Your feedback on the points as enumerated in my previous post..
    ok so i shall not expect from You follow-up regarding thes 3 points ?
    - documentation/links that state as You imply that Raid 10 is impossible above 4 drives ( Truly, I'm frustrated not to find on the web this confirmation. Should be all over the place..)
    - stance regarding the fairness of the Techinfosheet (not the manual)
    - doubts about how Fantac implemented Raid 10 on the QB.. ( by 1+0 or 0+1 in respect of my documentation)

    Thank You for Your understanding

    Raid 10 : How has Fantec implemented (2x) Raid10 on QB-X8US3R please

    I'd like to know how Fantec implements Raid 10.
    How can I find out ?

    Do their raid controller proceed first with striping, or first by mirroring,
    which way around ?

    It is of importance because the rebuild process (in case of HD failure) differs.
    The way Raids 3,5,30, 50 rebuild are not reasonable to me in regard of todays huge HD of 6tb each.
    Raid 10 (made of 1 + 0 ) is not URE sensitive, but "Raid10" build 0 + 1 is .



    One of the sources that teach me that is here :

    "There used to be confusion about what
    RAID01 or RAID10 meant and different RAID vendors defined them
    differently. About five years or so ago I proposed the following standard
    language which seems to have taken hold. When N mirrored pairs are
    striped together this is called RAID10 because the mirroring (RAID1) is
    applied before striping (RAID0). The other option is to create two stripe
    sets and mirror them one to the other, this is known as RAID01 (because
    the RAID0 is applied first). In either a RAID01 or RAID10 system each and
    every disk block is completely duplicated on its drive's mirror.
    Performance-wise both RAID01 and RAID10 are functionally equivalent. The
    difference comes in during recovery where RAID01 suffers from some of the
    same problems I will describe affecting RAID5 while RAID10 does not."Extract from URL RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt
    (The full implications are in the entire page and not only this excerpt)

    I ask because I have decided to not use Raid 5 nor Raid 50 (RAID-related Unrecoverable Read Errors (UREs) and repectivaly had to buy twice as many 6TB drives and want to be reassured
    I can consider the Fantec QB-X8US3R in accordance ( otherwise I will have spend 30tb for nothing ) or if I have to look out for an other Raid10 enclosure.
    ( I was already dissapointed to not see written on the technical sheet the indication that the QB-X8US3R, in Raid10, appears as 2 drives on the PC. I did learn it on the manual only once installed)

    QB-X8US3R e-sata connection not working / one drive of the Raid 10 disappeared...

    I have a seagate drive that works fine through the e-sata cable.

    if I use the same cable and same connector into my Win7 PC with the QB-X8US3R : No matter how I restart the two machenes ( QB-X8US3R and PC - without the USB cable plugged anywhere of course) :
    the QB-X8US3R wakes up, but no drive is recognized in Win7 - does not even make a sound. With the seagate it makes the sound connection and works fine.

    Thus it cannot be a faulty cable.
    Is e-sata not compatible with so many heavy HD at once (8x 6tb in modus 2xRaid10 = two drives ) ?


    --
    ( The tower is new - a week - I used USB 7x24hours (!) with some restarts, to fill it up with transfers from other disks (no it did not overheat) - and hopla : the first drive does not show anymore !
    with the QB-X8US3R in Raid10 : two drives should show up. I restarted everything many times differently, changing usb3 ports etc - only the second drive works, the first is detectable only as "not initialized" .
    I connected the enclosure with usb on another PC and there two : only the second drive appears.
    That is when I tried e-sata, but e-sata shows nothing AT ALL..
    The initial problem of drive disapearing : I start a new thredd for that : " QB-X8US3R, one drive of the Raid 10 disappeared... " )

    QB-X8US3R, one drive of the Raid 10 disappeared...

    The QB-X8US3R is a week young
    - I used it with USB3 connection 7x24hours (!) (with some restarts, without any heat problems),
    this long time necessary to half-fill it up with copies from various other disks
    - and hopla, when almost done : the first drive does not appear anymore.. !

    With the QB-X8US3R in Raid10 : two drives normally show up. I restarted everything many times differently; changing usb3 ports etc - only the second drive works, the first is detectable, but only as "not initialized" .

    I tested the enclosure with usb on another PC and there also : only the second drive appears.

    I expect through this forum ways to recover how it was - but, in the worst case scenario (only):
    Can I displace the upper 4 drives and put them (in the same order) into the lower 4 bays
    (or in a new replacement QB-X8US3R - into the same 4 bays) ?

    Even if I can displace them into the lower 4 slots (and use my data it took a week long night&day to place there), then re-initialize the 4 almost unused discs from the second drive (put into the Drive's position i "lost") ;
    would that be wise .. I mean, how can I be sure the "exact same problem" will not surprise me again in a worse situation even ?


    Hopefully I'm sorted out VERRY soon (It's a nightmare how much time tending a PC can take.. )

    Thank You for Help !!


    --
    ( I also tried e-sata instead, as well, but e-sata shows nothing AT ALL.. But I split the problems to two threads. Here, and "QB-X8US3R e-sata connection not working" )
    Hi,

    arpl schrieb:

    I'd like to know how Fantec implements Raid 10.
    How can I find out ?


    I think it's impossible to find out, possibly you could contact JMicron and ask there how their chipset (JMS539) uses the Raid mode. ;)

    arpl schrieb:

    Is e-sata not compatible with so many heavy HD at once (8x 6tb in modus 2xRaid10 = two drives ) ?


    You need a eSATA controller which is capable of using it with more than one drives like DawiControl DC-310e (it's very popular by our customers).

    arpl schrieb:

    I expect through this forum ways to recover how it was - but, in the worst case scenario (only):
    Can I displace the upper 4 drives and put them (in the same order) into the lower 4 bays
    (or in a new replacement QB-X8US3R - into the same 4 bays) ?

    Even if I can displace them into the lower 4 slots (and use my data it took a week long night&day to place there), then re-initialize the 4 almost unused discs from the second drive (put into the Drive's position i "lost") ;
    would that be wise .. I mean, how can I be sure the "exact same problem" will not surprise me again in a worse situation even ?


    Sounds like a problem caused by the OS, you could try a Recovery Tool to fix the Array (we don't give any references about such tools).
    Don't put around the HDDs because that won't help anyway!

    About the situation that shouldn't surprise you again: you can't prohibit it because when the OS, the Raid or the HDDs got a failure it's possible that all data is lost.

    VERY IMPORTANT: a Raid NEVER replaces a BACKUP so please make sure that you store all your data on another device, too! :thumbup:

    Best regards,
    Lars